Planning to race an Olympic-distance triathlon? You won't want to miss this episode! Joining us today is TriDot Coach Michellie Jones and the Race Director for one of the most iconic Olympic-distance races in the world (St. Anthony's Triathlon), Patrick McGee. Learn what makes this distance both challenging and so much fun. Michellie and Patrick talk about the different types of Olympic races - from draft legal events to time trials. They also discuss how to best prepare for and race this fast-paced endurance event. From fueling strategies, tricks of the trade for fast transitions, and moving up from the sprint to Olympic, this episode has everything you need to know about racing this distance! We are thrilled to have sailfish as the swim partner of TriDot Training. Head to sailfish.com to scout out your next wetsuit, swimskin, goggles and more! Use code sfc-tridot20 at checkout, for 20 percent off your new wetsuit. A big thanks to UCAN for being a long-time partner of the podcast! At TriDot, we are huge believers in using UCAN to fuel our training and racing. To experience UCAN’s LIVSTEADY products for yourself, head to their website UCAN.co! Use the code “TriDot” to save 20 percent on your entire order.
TriDot Podcast .183
The Challenges and Charm of the Olympic-Distance Triathlon
Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.
Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast! I am very excited to talk about racing today, specifically how to do your absolute best in an Olympic-distance triathlon. Which, in my personal opinion, is the most painful race distance of them all, but gosh golly they are a lot of fun. We are in good hands for this topic, our first guest joining us today is triathlon legend and TriDot Coach Michellie Jones. Michellie started her tri career in 1990, and won two ITU Triathlon World Championships in 1992 and 1993. She won the Xterra Triathlon World Championship in 1996, and won an Olympic silver medal in the Sydney Olympic Games. She became an Ironman World Champion in just her fourth full-distance Ironman in Kona 2006, and she won a gold medal at the 2016 Summer Paralympics as a guide for Katie Kelly when paratriathlon made its debut in the Paralympics. Michellie, welcome back to the show!
Michellie Jones: Hi, thank you so much for having me! Definitely this distance is probably my all‑time favorite, and I certainly have a record to prove that I did like it.
Andrew: Also here with us is the race director for one of the most iconic Olympic-distance races in the world. Patrick McGee from St. Anthony’s Triathlon in St. Petersburg, Florida. Patrick has over ten years of experience in event operations across more than 250 multisport and endurance events, including youth triathlons and road races, from 5K’s to marathons. Entering its 40th anniversary, St. Anthony’s Triathlon is one of the largest and longest-running events in the United States. Patrick has served as its race director now for four years. Patrick, welcome to the TriDot podcast!
Patrick McGee: Thank you for having me! This is a great opportunity, and I’m looking forward to chatting with you and Michellie on Olympic-distance racing, in my opinion one of the best distances for racing in our sport. I’m excited to be on here to chat about our 40th anniversary here at St. Anthony’s Triathlon, and everything Olympic-distance!
Andrew: I’m Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always, we’ll roll through our warmup question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cooldown.
Before we get too deep into the show today, I want to give a shout out to our good friends at UCAN. Here at TriDot we are huge believers in using UCAN to fuel our training and racing. In the crowded field of nutrition companies, what separates UCAN from the pack is the science behind LIVSTEADY, the key ingredient in UCAN products. While most energy powders are filled with sugar or stimulants that cause a spike and crash, UCAN energy powders, powered by LIVSTEADY, deliver a steady release of complex carbs to give you stable blood sugar and provide long-lasting energy. I personally fuel many of my workouts with the orange-flavored Edge gel, and between their energy mix, energy bars, almond butter, and more, there is definitely a LIVSTEADY product that you will love. So head to their website, ucan.co and use the code TRIDOT to save 20% on your entire order. Once again, that’s ucan.co, promo code TRIDOT.
Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.
Andrew: Recently on the I AM TriDot Facebook group, TriDot Ambassador Erni Quezada posted the following story: “We recently moved to a different state, and we tried a few churches. We finally settled on which one, and we have been attending now for a few months. We still feel new, but today I found out our pastor is not only an Ironman himself, but he is fast, World Championship-level fast.” Ernie even added that he checked to make sure. Ernie said, “I was like, ‘No way, this is it. This is our new church!’” I absolutely love this story, Ernie thanks so much for sharing it to the group. But it got me wondering, where else in our lives have our athletes and coaches come across another triathlete in some unexpected way? Michellie, Patrick, for our warmup question today, what was an occasion AWAY from the sport of triathlon, where you unexpectedly encountered another triathlete? Patrick, it’s your first time on the show, so we’re going to throw you into the deep end. What is your answer to this question?
Patrick: With a lot of event production and being a race director, we do a lot of traveling. So the easy answer on this one is “all over airports”, sitting next to them on airplanes, and just striking up a conversation of, “Hey, what do you do for a living?” Well, not a whole lot of people expect to hear “race director” for that, so when you say that, they say, “Oh, I’ve done that before,” or, “My wife does that,” or, “I have a cousin who races Ironman,” or whatever it may be. Then a lot of times you end up sitting on an airplane or sitting in an airport chatting with these triathletes for a good amount of time, just learning about their story, their passion for the sport, or their family that they’ve played race sherpa for, or they’ve gone to multiple races or helped them out along their journey to become a triathlete.
Andrew: Yeah, the airport absolutely makes sense. I know whenever I fly on behalf of TriDot to an Ironman race or CLASH Endurance race or any race where I’m going to be on site representing our brand, you’re always flying a few days before the race, so there’s always plenty of other people flying to that race, and you can pick them out pretty easily. There’s always logos and compressions socks and backpacks and jackets with certain things that tip you off to the fact that this is a fellow triathlete. Yeah, I totally get you. I always have to wear something TriDot of course, personally. Coach Michellie, as long as you’ve been in the sport, and you’re very well-traveled like Patrick – he took the airport answer, so you can’t say airport – where is a place where you have kind of unexpectedly bumped into a fellow triathlete away from the sport?
Michellie: Definitely the airport one is a big one, but I was actually at a horse event – because my second passion of course is horses and horse riding – at a big World Cup dressage and show jumping, and I happened to need a new saddle for my horse, so I had booked a session. When that person came out to the barn to fit the saddle on my horse, she didn’t know I was a triathlete, and I didn’t know she was a triathlete, but one of the other barn members had an Ironman shirt on, and Jo said to her like, “Oh, do you do triathlon? You need to talk to Michellie,” and she’s actually been one of my athletes ever since, so that was seven years ago. I trained her through her first Ironman, and I think she’s coming up to number five in Texas this year. So you never know who does triathlon, it’s such a small world.
Andrew: Yeah no kidding! For me, when I was getting certified as a USAT Triathlon Level I coach. You fly in for wherever the classes are, you go through the classes, and the last step I had to complete to become a certified coach was get CPR certified. They want to make sure coaches know a certain amount of first aid, which totally makes sense. So I found in my area a CPR class in my area and I go to it. In my CPR session, there were a handful of construction workers that clearly their company had sent them to get CPR certified. Then there was me and this other lady, and this other lady was wearing – if you’re familiar with Camp Gladiator, the workout program – she was wearing a Camp Gladiator hoodie, so she was there to get certified to be a Camp Gladiator coach of some sort. So on our first break from learning class, a ten‑minute water or bathroom break or whatever, I think as the only other non‑construction worker person in the room, she just naturally came over to me and started talking, “What do you do, why are you here?” So mentioned “I work with this company called TriDot, I’m getting certified as a triathlon coach.” She’s like, “Oh, my husband does triathlons!” So I started telling her all about TriDot, and the long-story-short of it, her husband actually ended up doing some work for TriDot for a little bit. A really great guy, really nice guy. So now, whenever we’re at the local races that I see her husband go by on the race course, I’m like, “Hey Matt, you’re doing great, good job buddy!” I never would have known this guy otherwise, and he never would have ended up working for TriDot for a little bit otherwise, except that I met his wife at a CPR class and she was like, “Oh, my husband’s a triathlete, I’ll put you two in touch.” So you never know where you’re going to bump into a triathlete or meet a triathlete. Erni, I love this story, I love this question. I’m excited to hear what our audience has to say, so make sure you are a member of the I AM TriDot Facebook group Facebook group. We have thousands of triathletes talking swim, bike, and run every single day, and every Monday when the new show comes out, I pose the warmup question to our audience. So find the post asking you: where in your life have you unexpectedly found/discovered another triathlete?
Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…
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An Olympic-distance triathlon is twice the fun and twice the pain of a sprint-distance triathlon, and depending on who you are and what your fitness level is, an Olympic might be short and fast, or it can be long an intimidating. No matter who you are and how long you plan to be on course, Coach Michellie and Patrick from St. Anthony’s Triathlon are here to get you ready to Oly. Now Michellie, with two ITU Triathlon World Championships and one Olympic silver medal, you certainly had a huge amount of success at this distance. You’ve won St. Anthony’s actually, many times at this distance, Patrick was nice enough to let me know that. You’ve won Escape from Alcatraz many times, which is close to this distance. What is it about the Olympic distance that just made you, for lack of better phrasing, just so darn good at it?
Michellie: I think it’s the attitude that you come into this race, because it’s not a sprint distance, and it’s not a 70.3 distance, it sort of sits nicely in between. It’s challenging enough that you can still push the limit a little bit, but the endurance factor starts to kick in. Then you also think about the fourth discipline of triathlon, and that’s nutrition. A lot of people don’t understand that this is where race nutrition really starts. When you step up to an Olympic-distance race, nutrition becomes key, because you know the average triathlete is probably out there for over three hours, so it’s important you get your nutrition right. Swimming a 1,500‑meter swim distance, that’s a long way. You have to train for it, you can’t fake it. You can fake it a little bit for the 500 to 750‑meter range, but once you step up into that 1,500 meters, you really need to know how to swim, and have the fitness. Then of course the 40K bike, again it just pushes the limits. You get to the 18‑mile mark, and then you’ve still got that little bit to go, so it challenges you towards the end. Then of course the 6.2‑mile run, if you’ve gone too hard on the bike and you haven’t utilized your nutrition correctly also on the bike, you’re really going to suffer on the run. It’s also important that the last half of the 10K, that’s when you really see how good your fitness is, how good your nutrition is, and your mental aptitude, like, “C’mon, I’ve got to keep going!” That’s the hardest part, I feel, definitely that last 5K of the run in an Olympic-distance race.
Andrew: I’m so glad you mentioned that this is really the first distance where nutrition can play a crucial role, and we’ll talk more about that a little further down our run sheet here. But I remember my first Olympic distance, I looked it up coming into this conversation because I was curious. I had done triathlons for a year or two before I tried the Olympic distance, so my seventh triathlon was my first Olympic. I did five sprints and a duathlon before I did my first Olympic. For one thing, Michellie, like you said, I was intimidated by the longer swim, and then two, I went into it and I just had no idea what to do with nutrition. I knew I needed something, and I remember very vividly I took the time in T1 to eat a little Honey Stinger waffle thing, but I think that’s all I did. I think I took a gel on the run, but looking back I know I didn’t do enough. That was just that naiveté, out of inexperience, and hopefully as we talk further today about how our folks can have their best experience at an Olympic, we’ll talk a little bit more about that. I looked up my time, my first Olympic I finished in 2:47, so just a smidge above that three-hour mark you’re saying is average, so well done to 2017 Andrew Harley on that. Michellie, you put the distances in terms of miles. In terms of kilometers, it’s a 1,500 meter swim, a 40K bike, and a 10K run, nice even round numbers. I’ve always known this to be called the Olympic distance, but you were winning world championships at this distance before triathlon was even officially an Olympic sport. What was this called before the year 2000 when it debuted in the Sydney Games? Was it always called an Olympic distance, or was it classified as something else before that?
Michellie: I think that was sort of the goal from the start, that it was an International distance or Olympic distance came into play really early in the sport. It wasn’t something like, “This is the Olympic distance.” It sort of progressed from International/Olympic distance. Then when we started to go into that whole progression of getting ourselves into the Olympics, then it really took over that it was the Olympic distance rather than the International distance.
Andrew: Yeah, which you feel so cool and official when you sign up for an Olympic-distance race and then you watch the Olympics on TV when it comes around, and I’m like, “I’ve done that! I’ve done what they’re doing, just much slower than they’re doing it.” So when I was setting up the recording time for this episode, Patrick was the one, like I mentioned, who brought it to my attention that you, Michellie, are a multi-time St. A’s champion, so Patrick thank you for that little info. But Michellie, I’m curious, is there a big difference for you, in the vibe between racing time-trial Olympics like St. Anthony’s, versus the draft-legal style of events that are done in ITU circuit and at the Olympics? It’s the same distance, but did it feel the same for you in the pro field?
Michellie: No, definitely it’s two types of races. The non‑drafting, where you’re not allowed to sit behind anyone, it’s really important to get set up on that TT bike, that drive positioning for the bike. That’s really where the big difference is, because you still swim and run the same distances, it still has the same feel. It’s the bike that has the different feel. In a drafting situation the pacing can be very erratic, where in a non‑drafting race it’s like a steady state. In a non-drafting race, if you’re looking at your functional threshold power, you’re right up there in that 90 to 95% of your functional threshold power. In a drafting Olympic race, sometimes you’re going to be way over into above threshold, and then you’re barely going to be peddling, because it’s very tactical. That’s I think where the real difference is, basically just on the bike. There are also different bikes,. When you race the Olympics, you’re only allowed to ride a road bike, but when you do this style of racing like St. Anthony’s Triathlon, it’s full-on TT, triathlon positioning. Not to say that you can’t ride a road bike. There’s a lot of people who do, and some people ride a road bike with clip-on aerobars. But yeah, definitely this is like, you’re out there by yourself and it’s all about you on the bike, where in an Olympic style of event where it’s drafting, it’s basically about how the pack works. Who’s willing to work, who’s not willing to work, and also positioning out of the water, because a lot of the times in that style a race, if you’re not at the front of the pack it’s very hard to catch up, where if you’re a very strong cyclist you still have a chance in a non‑drafting situation.
Andrew: I actually did my first draft-legal race last year, 2022. I did the USA Triathlon when they brought their multisport championships to Irving, Texas that is 12 minutes down the road from my house, so I had to go down there and do something. I did the draft-legal relay with some other TriDotters, it was a ton of fun. We will definitely have to have you come back on, Coach Michellie, to talk to us about draft-legal races and how to do our best in that scenario and environment. I don’t think there’s a ton of them for the common age‑grouper, but they do exist and are a lot of fun, so we’ll have to get that one on the books in the future.
Michellie: And of course, if you’re doing sprint-distance racing and you want to go to the World Championships, that’s the style of racing you do, the drafting style.
Andrew: Very true. So Patrick, I have to thank my friends from CLASH Endurance – I’m wearing my CLASH Endurance hat today as an homage – for introducing us. We were at Endurance Exchange recently in Austin, Texas and I was instantly just pumped to have the race director for such a storied event join us to talk about the Olympic-distance tri. Tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming a race director in the first place, and then how you joined the team producing St. A’s?
Patrick: Absolutely! The way I got my start as a race director is, when I graduated from college in 2008, I needed a job. I really had no idea what triathlon was. I’d heard of the Ironman, but that really was when triathlon was starting to really take off, the mid‑2000’s. I started as an intern at Ironman in the IronKids Triathlon department. They were starting to bring back the IronKids Triathlon Series, and over the next few years I helped develop the IronKids Triathlon Series. I think at its most, we produced 32 kids triathlons throughout the country each year, which all culminated in a national championship held in Des Moines, we held one in St. Pete, we held one in Arizona. That’s really where I got my start, is producing kids’ races. Now, working for Ironman you have lots of different resources around you when it comes to learning and producing events and race directors. I really got to know the previous race director for St. Anthony’s, Philip LaHaye, who now works for CLASH Endurance as well. He really showed me the ropes when it came to swim, bike, run, and the things that needed to be set up and done to move from kids’ racing and shorter distance into that Ironman-distance, 70.3 distance. He really showed me the ropes on what it takes to produce such big, wonderful events. After I left Ironman, I had the opportunity to go work for Premier Event Management and Bill Burke based out of New Orleans. Bill is a legend in the sport, especially when it comes to producing Olympic-distance races. I got to be a part of producing some of the greatest Olympic-distance races in the world, including the Nation’s Triathlon, Escape From Alcatraz, New York City Triathlon, and of course the Hy-Vee Triathlon, which was one of the biggest prize purses in the sport of triathlon a few years ago. I really got to learn event production and Olympic-distance racing from Bill Burke and the Premier Event Management crew, and it’s been a roller coaster of production ever since. We’re very grateful to have finally produced the St. Anthony’s triathlon in 2022, and we’re excited again for 2023, our 40th anniversary of this great race.
Andrew: Absolutely, congrats on that. We actually went and raced Escape From Alcatraz on its 40th anniversary just a few years ago, and had a blast at that distance. I love that you got your start with IronKids. I got my start coaching with local youth and junior triathlon, and going to the kids’ races – I don’t know, there’s something about the moment when the kids are coming out of the water and entering T1, and they all have these wild looks on these faces like they just survived a war zone, and they swam 300 yards or whatever. I love kids’ triathlon, youth triathlon, and I love it you got your start there, very cool to hear that. So you have raced St. Anthony’s once, have you done any other triathlon events? What’s your personal athletic endurance background?
Patrick: So I got into the sport doing event production and I said, “I might as well give this thing a try. If I’m going to be behind the scenes, I might as well see what it’s like from the other side.” So I did my first sprint triathlon in 2009 at Fort De Soto here in St. Pete, then I started training immediately after that for my first 70.3. Again, working for Ironman, you have a lot of resources around you, coaches and different people you can chat with about racing. So I decided to dive into this thing full-steam ahead, and went from the sprint distance immediately to 70.3. I was able to do that, I raced 70.3 New Orleans, a great Bill Burke race, and after that is when I started on this triathlon journey, if you will. From racing local sprint triathlons to Olympic-distance, I think I’ve done four Olympic-distance triathlons over my span of years, a handful of 70.3’s, one full-distance Ironman, multiple marathons, multiple half-marathons, and really just loving the sport and everything that goes along with it.
Andrew: Let’s talk a little bit about coaching our athletes on how to do the best at an Olympic-distance race. This won’t be the case for everyone, but many triathletes get their start at the sprint distance – like myself, like you Patrick – and then at some point have to make that decision to step up to the Olympic-distance. I mentioned I did five sprints before I mustered up the courage to go a little bit further. So for an athlete listening who maybe has done the sprint distance, or someone who is a brand-new triathlete looking at their first race, Coach Michellie, how can we know when we are ready to step up to that Olympic distance?
Michellie: I think you’re ready when you want to do one, you start thinking about it. I think that’s the first step, it’s like, “Hey, I’ve done all these sprints.” It’s the same sort of transition that you do, “I’ve done some 70.3’s, I think I should do an Ironman.” Or, “I want to stay in that sort of comfort zone.” I think maybe you’ve done a couple sprint-distance races, maybe you started doing some longer training and you’re like, “Oh, maybe I can do an Olympic.” As soon as that thought starts to come in your head, or maybe one of your friends is doing St. Anthony’s Triathlon and you want to do it with them. It’s always fun to do it with somebody else. But the process is, for one, wanting to do it, identifying a race, and then really adapting your training toward that Olympic-distance style. It’s not a huge amount of training difference to a sprint, but definitely the load that you have to put in for the swim is important, you definitely want to feel comfortable swimming that 1,500‑meter distance. On the bike, typically if you’re doing a sprint-distance race, your training is anywhere from 90 minutes to two hours on the bike for your longest ride. So you know you’ll need to step that up to two, 2½ hours, sometimes you need to go a little bit more. Then on the run – I like to talk in minutes and hours rather than distance – for a sprint distance maybe your max run is like 60 to 70 minutes, so just by upping it to that 80‑ to 90‑minute range, you can get through an Olympic-distance race very comfortably. Then if you decide to push it, you still have that confidence from that training load that you’ve progressed from sprint to the Olympic. So it’s not a big huge adjustment. Definitely there’s a workload increase for sure, doing a little bit longer intervals that are focused around the pacing. I think that’s one of the keys to racing successfully at this distance, is sticking to the pacing and letting your training dictate that pacing based on your assessments and everything. To me, that’s the key in an Olympic-distance race is getting the pacing correct, because we say the sprint is a sprint race, but it’s not really because it’s like 90 minutes for the average person. Now we’re stepping up to 2½, maybe three hours for the average athlete, so that endurance piece is huge as well. And you know, I tell people, just because you’re running a marathon doesn’t mean you have to run a marathon in training. But it’s a little bit different for the Olympic distance, because you do need to swim more than 1,500 meters, and I feel like if you can bike a little bit more in that 30‑ to 50‑mile range, that little extra endurance helps. Then in the run, you want to run maybe a little bit over the six‑mile distance, because again, it’s that endurance component that kicks in.
Andrew: I think for an athlete that is using TriDot Training this is probably a pretty easy jump, because the default training week with TriDot – unless you’ve messed with your settings or something – you’ll usually have a one‑hour swim on Monday and Friday, and in that one‑hour swim you’re probably going 2,000 to 3,000 yards or meters. So you’re already ready for that distance, you’re doing that distance every single time you go to the pool for training. Your long bike sessions are already close to an hour and a half.
Michellie: Yeah, then the same with the run on TriDot as well. I like where it sits you around that 60 to 70 minutes, and then it’ll push you out a little bit. I always believe two to three swims – two for me would be minimum, three for Olympic distance is very, very doable, especially if you are swimming that prescribed time that TriDot allows in their training programming. Then the strength component too is important, because you are stepping up a little bit, so make sure you are doing some type of functional strength. Because you are stepping up to more endurance, you want to make sure that you’re not going to get injured. Just adding that bit of strength component to it is really beneficial as well.
Andrew: Great thought there, great comment. For me, when I was making that jump from sprint to Olympic, that was before I was a TriDot athlete. At the time I was swimming three of four times a week, but I was only swimming 1,000 or 1,500 yards at a time on my lunch breaks at work, so 1,500 meters seemed very far to me in the pool. I was riding 20, 25 miles on a Saturday, so all the distances of an Olympic-distance tri seemed like a long way to me, then you have to put it together. In a lot of the sprints I did – I think the official distance of a sprint is 750 meters, it’s half of an Olympic, but a lot of the pool-based sprints that we had in the Dallas-Fort Worth area were only 250 to 300 meters. If you’re swimming 300 meters in a sprint in a pool, and you’re looking at your next race being an Olympic and it’s 1,500 meters in open water, that is five times further on the swim! To me, it just seemed like an eternity to be out there in the water, but I finally made the jump and finally got into it. So I think if you’re using TriDot to train, it’s probably not as intimidating a jump as it was for me when I wasn’t using TriDot back in that time.
Michellie: I was going to say, you were talking about racing and the swim distance, I think that’s pretty typical across the entire country, that there’s not a lot of times that you get to swim 750 meters. A lot of the time the swims are 400 to 500 yards or meters, so as you said, there is a bigger step for some people. So when I’m coaching, I always make sure that you’re competent in the water, because you want your athletes to have a good experience, and part of that is them understanding the training load that’s required to swim a 1,500‑meter swim. Even my collegiate tri kids that I coach, they’re always like, “Why do we swim this much when our swim’s only going to be this?” I go, “Because it sets you up for a successful bike and run, because you don’t want to be fatigued and freaked out in that water that then your race is sort of gone, because you didn’t do what you needed to do to feel comfortable and competent.” Those are two words that I like to use: comfortable and competent.
Andrew: Yeah, TriDot athletes can add an Olympic like St. Anthony’s to their RaceX, and TriDot from there will begin to tailor your training to get your ready for that race. Patrick, I’m curious from your experience, you’ve raced this distance, you’ve raced a couple different distances – on top of what Michellie said, and on top of the training that TriDot will give an athlete, do you have any additional nuggets of wisdom from your own Olympic experience on training for that Olympic distance?
Patrick: I think Michellie said it right, is when you’re ready to make that jump, there’s plenty of Olympic-distance races out there that would be glad to have athletes come and race with them. For a sprint distance, a lot of times you can muscle through a swim, muscle through a bike and run, but when you start getting into those bigger distances, the Olympic distance is a great one to then have to add a little bit extra time, a little bit extra training. You don’t have to give up your social life, you don’t have to completely go full-on in super-early mornings and three-day workouts and things like that. You can still train for any Olympic-distance race and still be able to enjoy a good social life and not have to completely rearrange your schedule to train for it.
Andrew: Absolutely true. To me, every race distance has a different feel and presents very different challenges. Earlier in the show I mentioned how I feel like the Olympic distance is the one that hurts the most, because it’s twice the distance of a sprint, but I really don’t back off the pace all that much from my sprint effort. Michellie mentioned it earlier, 90 to 95% of your FTP on the bike, but that’s not that much less than going full-tilt on the sprint. So by the end, coming around towards the finish line I am just in shambles, trying to get my legs to keep turning over, keep that cadence going as I approach that finish line. What wisdom do you both have in terms of pacing the Olympic distance to eke the most out of your fitness on that race course? Coach Michellie?
Michellie: It depends on how competitive you want to be, if you’re going for a medal on the podium compared to just finishing. They’re two different goals, a different philosophy of how hard you’re going to go. But I think you’re right, Andrew, because I’m the same way, when I do a sprint I’m like, “Oh my goodness, how am I going to be able to maintain that for an Olympic?” As you said, you’re not going much slower. For me, the pacing is in the training, that you are doing the sessions. In the pool, a perfect session for me is a broken 1,500, so you’re doing a set that’s 1,500 and have short rests, but in the end, you’ve worked and you get confident from that. Then on the bike, you’ve got to add intervals. That’s what I like about TriDot, the intervals, intervals are so important. It’s funny, because back in the day a lot of people would just go ride their bike and go, “Okay, that’s my bike session.” But as we’ve progressed, people understand the importance of intervals, understanding what it feels like to ride at that FTP. Some athletes can do it in 60 minutes, some athletes are going to take almost 90 minutes to finish the bike. Understanding what that effort feels like, that perceived effort is important as well. Then running off the bike, transition from that 40K to that 10K, that’s why we do bricks. That’s why we run off the bike, so we understand how that feels. Shorten your stride, make sure that you’re used to running with a level of fatigue, because that’s the secret to being successful is having the body adapt to that fatigue very quickly. The 10K run, it’s not just fitness, it’s nutrition. It’s like you said, you find it really tough at the ending few miles. That’s when nutrition starts to really help. Yeah you have to do the running training, you’ve got to do the intervals, you’ve got to learn what the race pace is going to feel like, and definitely if you compare your regular 10K to a triathlon 10K, there’s really only a small percentage of difference. It's usually about 10 to 15%. For some of the elite athletes, the idea is to close that gap. Some of these professional men are running 29 minutes off the bike, and really their normal 10K run is very similar to that. That’s the whole idea is to learn how to run with that level of fatigue and still be able to maintain that for triathlon. I think sometimes that’s the hardest thing when runners come into the sport, because they’re not used to running with that level of fatigue. They’re used to having a lot fresher legs. That’s why you see some people who can run off the bike really, really well and others who can’t. So it’s important to make sure that training is duplicating that level of fatigue that you get used to. The last 5K, you’ve got to get some nutrition in, and that will sustain you to the finish.
Andrew: Yeah, again, looking back at my Olympic experiences, my very first one before TriDot training, I ran a 53‑minute run split and was hanging on for dear life. Fast forward to a few years into being a TriDot athlete, and my last Olympic distance I ran a 43‑minute 10K off the bike. I’m a 38‑minute 10K‑er on a track as a time trial. So to your point Michellie, putting in the work – all those TriDot Zone 4 and Zone 5 intervals, all the strength training, all the brick workouts where you get off the bike on a Saturday and you run 20 minutes at Zone 3 –it really paid off with me being able to hold a much larger percentage of my 10K pace off the bike than I could previously before, and definitely had a lot more fun doing it. It hurt, it hurt real bad, but I had a lot of fun doing that. Patrick, in your experience racing this distance, what kind of pacing tips do you have from your experience?
Patrick: I was never the athlete, I was always the “do my best to hang on” towards the middle and end of the race –
Andrew: Yes! Let’s go! We can be friends and training partners, you and I.
Patrick: – but I also have seen a lot of races from an operations side and from a race director’s side, and you see the full scope of athletes that come to race the Olympic distance. Not only do we have our pros here, we also have a lot of athletes who are using our race to try to earn their pro card, so you have some of those really intense athletes who are out here who have trained and are here to race fast. That’s one thing that’s great about the Olympic distance, and that you have to put in the training for it. We have athletes who are here to swim that, bike that, and run that as hard as they can go to try to podium or to try to earn that pro card. On the other end of it, we have those athletes who want to come out here and just enjoy the great event that we produce, hang out with the local tri community, and really just be a part of such a great event that is put on in this great location. But both of those require putting in some sort of training. It can be the super-intense going for your pro card, or it can also be the “I need to learn to swim 1,500, I need to learn to bike the distance, I need to learn to run the distance,” and then putting them all together. With it all, and with the pacing, there’s a broad spectrum of athletes who come out and race St. Anthony’s and who come out and race the Olympic distance, but all of them have one thing in common: this is the distance where you have to start putting in some training and some effort to be able to put them all together and cross that finish line. And to Michellie’s point, this really is the distance where you do have to start incorporating nutrition into it. Especially here in St. Pete, and in Florida, it can get a little warm on race day, so you’ve got to learn to make sure that you’re hydrated, make sure that you’re keeping your electrolytes up and in balance, as well as being able to fuel the bike and ultimately the run to make sure that you have a great day out there and you can finish that race.
Andrew: Yeah, let’s talk about fueling for just a second, because at the sprint distance, I think for most people it’s just a splash of this and a splash of that at the aid stations along the way, maybe a couple sips from a bottle while you’re biking, and largely you’re fine. But as soon as you double that distance, like Michellie said and Patrick just reiterated, depending on how long you plan to be on course, calories and hydration really are a factor. Michellie, what do we need to consider to stay fueled for that 51½‑kilometer event?
Michellie: I think number one, we’re so lucky now that we have access to sweat testing, to see what that process actually is. Especially in a hot race versus a cold race, it’s worth the investment of knowing what your sweat profile is, because that can really, really help you. Because you can’t just do this distance on water alone, you need the electrolytes, and you need to make sure you are hydrated before you start. I think that’s something that sometimes people forget, not just in racing but in training. Like if it’s a hot day and you’re going for a run, you’ve got to make sure you’re filling up the tank so to speak before you start. In terms of what you do for an Olympic-distance race, you have to have a breakfast. It could be oatmeal or a bagel, something like that, two to three hours before, then 30 minutes before take in a little bit more carbohydrate. But through that process, up until you finally start the race, you want to be hydrating as well with water and electrolytes. Then once you start the race, particularly in a hot race, you’ve got to remember you’re sweating, so it’s important to hydrate as soon as you get out of the water. And if you’re at the front of the pack, your needs are going to be a little bit different than if you’re a little bit further back in the pack, so maybe you need to get those carbohydrates in a little bit sooner than a more elite athlete who maybe halfway on the bike will be taking in some sort of gel or chews. They’re also going to be continually hydrating, and also it’s important to keep your core temperature down in a hot race, so perhaps you have two water bottles on your bike. One will be your electrolytes, and one will be plain water so you can cool yourself down a little bit during that 40K, because you can overheat very quickly. Then as you get to the later stages of the bike, you can either gel up, or get some more carbohydrate source in right before you get off the bike. Always make sure you take advantage of that first aid station on the run, and then halfway on the run, again, you want to take in some sort of carbohydrate. Then if you have a high sweat rate, you’ve got to also look at the salt concentration in an Olympic-distance race, like “How much sodium have I got in during that phase, because I don’t want to get to the point where I’m dehydrated.” So it’s important to look at the whole process, not just your grams of carbohydrate but what your sweat profile looks like. For me, in an Olympic-distance race, I sort of halve the need in a 70.3 race and an Ironman distance. For me in an Ironman race, I’m probably looking at 40 to 60 grams of carbohydrate, so in an Olympic-distance race I’m probably looking at 20 to 30.
Andrew: Patrick, you’re also on this podcast saying hydration and nutrition is very important at this distance. But as a race director, I’m curious – the same weekend that you produce the Olympic distance, you also have a sprint at St. Anthony’s I believe. A lot of races do that, if they have an Olympic, they also have a sprint, and vice versa. So from an event production standpoint, is it just as simple as doubling the aid stations, or are you trying to equip the aid stations with more nutrition options and more hydration options, knowing that these athletes are going to be out on course twice as long or a little bit longer? What comes into play from just the production standpoint, when you think about fueling your athletes?
Patrick: Absolutely. So St. Anthony’s is in Florida, and we can oftentimes have great weather, and sometimes we can have hot weather. Leading up to the race, we absolutely plan for that, because the safety and health of our athletes is the number one priority around here. We offer multiple things throughout race day for our sprint-distance and Olympic-distance athletes, to make sure that they are fueling properly and taking care of their nutrition needs. We do offer water and electrolyte, Gatorade bottle fill in transition in the morning. We offer a bottle exchange out on the bike course – not a whole lot of Olympic-distance races do that – we offer bottle exchange, which includes water and Gatorade Endurance formula for our Olympic athletes. Then on the run, we want to make sure that all of our athletes are fueling properly there, and offer water, ice, Gatorade Endurance formula for the run, as well as gels for our sprint and Olympic athletes when it comes to getting out there on the run course and taking in the proper nutrition that you need to make it to that finish line.
Michellie: Yeah, I was just going to say, I think one of the biggest mistakes I see a lot of athletes make is not continuing the hydration right up to the start time. A lot of the times the swim start is a fair distance from the transition, and if you’re doing the wave start, maybe your race is way later. I see so many people who aren’t continuing that hydration leading up to their start time.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point.
Michellie: Yeah, and it’s important. I know I’ve been at races where there’s a delay or something, and you just want something to drink because it’s so hot. So make sure that you take into account when your start time is, when you have to get out of transition as well. That’s one of the biggest mistakes I see athletes making in most races, that they don’t keep that hydration up, and they’re standing there waiting for their race for maybe an hour, and they’re sweating.
Andrew: Yeah, so go down there with a bottle and some salt pills, whatever it is you can take on the spot. I often go down to the start line with one last gel in my pocket to top off before the race starts. Great point there, Michellie. That’s something we definitely tell our Ironman and 70.3 athletes, but yeah, at the Olympic distance, you’re fueling yourself for a multi-hour effort, so you need to start off with those carbohydrate and electrolyte stores totally topped off when you hit that start line.
Michellie: And I’m hoping one of the questions you ask us soon is how you warm up.
Andrew: Michellie, I do not have that question on my sheet! Let’s talk about it, let’s go there!
Michellie: I know, I know! But that’s another point that I see so many athletes neglect. It’s like you warm up for all these other things in training – we do a warmup for the swim, we do a warmup for the bike, we do a warmup for the run, we do a warmup for our strength session – then you get to a race, and all these people are just standing around, and they don’t warm up.
Andrew: And Coach Michellie is like, “What are you doing??”
Michellie: Yeah I know, even with my athletes I’m like, “You saw me go out and warm up!” And in a hotter environment, it doesn’t have to be very much, but it’s nice just to get moving, sometimes getting in and swimming a little bit. Sometimes that’s not possible, so think of some other way to warm up. A lot of people will go for a run, because that’s so easy to do, which is great. But even on the bike, if you’re getting the bike out of the car and racking the morning of the race, get on for a few minutes and make sure your gears are working, make sure your brakes aren’t rubbing if you’ve taken wheels out. That can be part of your warmup as well. The warmup doesn’t have to be long, but it should be something. And in a colder environment it’s even more important, especially if it’s a cold swim. Maybe it’s swinging your arms before you get in the water, sometimes when you get to swim out to the starting point of a race, that could be a nice warmup too. But it’s one of the neglected pieces, especially if you’re racing flat-out at this distance, if you’re really racing to your best fitness level and you’re trying to get on the podium, warming up a little bit can make a big difference, because the swim can be very explosive in this type of racing.
Andrew: Michellie, I totally blanked on putting the warmup down on this episode, very important when you’re racing short-course. But I will shamelessly plug TriDot Podcast Episode No. .67, I looked it up while you were talking. We did a whole episode called, “The Why and How of Your Pre‑Race Warmup”, which originally came out January 4, 2021. One of the points that TriDot Coach Jeff Raines makes on this episode: the longer your race is, the less important that warmup is, because your body’s going to have plenty of time on Ironman race day to ease into the effort. But when you’re racing shorter, when you’re racing a super-sprint, a sprint, or an Olympic, you’re going at a higher intensity from the get‑go, and that takes really properly warming up your muscles to really fire straight away when you hop in that water for the first time, like you’re talking about. Great point, thank you for bringing it up, that’s why you’re the industry expert on this episode, and I’m just the Average Joe asking the questions. So listen to Coach Michellie and do your warmup. I have one or two questions left for Patrick about St. Anthony’s in particular, but Michellie, before I let you go, I just want to ask you, as someone who has won that race seven times – which Patrick tells me is tied for the record of the most St. Anthony’s wins by a pro triathlete – you’ve won a lot of different races at the Olympic distance, what were your thoughts on St. Anthony’s Tri in St. Pete, Florida?
Michellie: One of the things I love most about St. Anthony’s Triathlon, it was like the big season opener. It was an opportunity to really see where your fitness was at. It was the big race to get the U.S. season started, but it was also the community feel. I had met so many wonderful people, the home-stay program is absolutely fantastic. I loved the course because it’s just fast and furious. The water can be a little challenging sometimes with the chop, but I love the unexpected nature, because you didn’t know how much wind you were going to get on the bike, and it was a time where you could really put some of your fastest times together for both the swim, the bike, and the run. And even though there’s lots of turns on the bike, it’s still a super-fast course. One of my stories that I wanted to share was Craig Walton did this race one year, and he totally forgot his cycling shoes in the hotel and didn’t have time to go back and get his cycling shoes, so he proceeded to ride past the entire field in his run shoes.
Andrew: That’s old school.
Michellie: Absolutely amazing athlete, yeah. I mean, that’s the thing about this particular race. I came back year after year because I loved it so much. It was because it was one of the fastest races we could do, but it was also one of those community events where you made long-lasting relationships.
Andrew: Very cool. Patrick, this might be anecdotal to my area where I live, but it seems like there’s many, many more local sprints than there are Olympic options for athletes to sign up for. I looked this up just out of curiosity, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area – looking at the websites from the race producers I’m familiar with anyway – I counted 22 sprint-distance races, to only eight Olympics throughout the year. As an event producer, what changes for an event when you make it an Olympic versus a sprint, or having both, which you do with St. A’s?
Patrick: So we started as an Olympic-distance race, and then we added the sprint distance a few years ago because it worked well with our course. It allowed more athletes to come out and race with us, and really enjoy the overall event experience. The distance is one difference, obviously, but also making it work operationally. It goes from covering a 26‑mile bike course – where you need to find multiple roads, you can sometimes do out‑and-backs, things like that – to a sprint where a lot of times it’s between 10 and 12 miles. So being able to find five miles out and back is a little easier than being able to cover a full 26 miles when it comes to an Olympic-distance race. Same goes with the run course, being able to find the distance, find the ability to be out there for longer times. For a sprint-distance race, a lot of athletes are racing between one hour and 2½ hours, versus an Olympic-distance race. With a race this size, we do our best to get everybody in the water as fast as we can, but our course doesn’t officially close until 1:15 in the afternoon. So you’re having to build all of this in to your timeline, your infrastructure, making sure that you can keep the roads shut down, make sure that you can keep your athletes safe, and you’re making sure that everybody’s out there enjoying themselves throughout a long day of racing.
Andrew: Patrick, I eventually will come do St. Anthony’s. It’s not going to be this year for me, as I said earlier, but there will be plenty of TriDotters there, taking in the experience. We have a lot of podcast listeners in the Florida area, obviously a big triathlon state with the sunny weather year-round. But just close out our main set today with an invitation. I know it’s the 40th Anniversary of St. Anthony’s this year. I’m sure someone’s going to come across this podcast like four years from now and click on and listen, and they’re going to be really confused. But for people racing in the area this year, just give us the invitation for the 40th Anniversary of St. A’s Tri.
Patrick: Yeah, this is the 40th Anniversary of St. Anthony’s, we are excited to host a great pro field, a sprint distance, and Olympic distance. We also have a relay option for each one of those, as well as our Meek & Mighty Triathlon on Saturday, which is a triathlon for youth and maybe those beginners who are looking to try out the sport of triathlon. We have a distance and an event for everyone throughout the weekend, as well as our Sports and Fitness Expo starting on Friday. A full day of racing, expo on Saturday, and then the big race on Sunday. This is a great opportunity for us, and we’re looking forward to putting on a great event.
Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.
Vanessa Ronksley: It’s cooldown time, and I’m Vanessa, your Average Triathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm! Today on the cooldown, I am here with Brandi Ramirez, who is one of those people who warms your heart as soon as you meet her. Brandi is a mother of one adopted, and four biological children. In 2008, she wanted to prove to herself that she was a strong and powerful woman, so she decided to give triathlon a try. Despite all the training and racing, she did not find the breaking point that she was anticipating, but instead fell in love with the sport. In 2017, Brandi was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer, and spent the next year and a half undergoing aggressive treatments to save her life. When she decided to return to the sport, she hit rock bottom, as she struggled to run a single mile. With a degree in science and health, a certified Ironman coach, and a certified yoga and Pilates Reformer instructor, she realized that she needed to rebuild from the bottom up. Brandi also started to wonder how many others had beaten cancer, and desired to return to exercise only to realize how much strength they had lost during their illness and treatments. At that very moment, she created a non‑profit called SheStrong, which has 3,900 members to date, and the main goal is to help women get back into training following illness. Brandi hosted the first USAT-sanctioned race in her hometown of Kingman, Arizona this year, where a portion of the registration fee was used to create scholarships for young girls whose primary caregiver has battled cancer. Since 2019, Brandi has become a TriDot coach, a TriDot Master Swim Instructor, and a newly-minted certified USAT Race Director. This woman is a force to be reckoned with, and I am honored to welcome her to share a Coach Cooldown Tip.
Brandi Ramirez: Hi Vanessa, thank you so much for having me here today, I really appreciate it!
Vanessa: Well, we are so lucky to have you sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom, I’m so excited to hear what you have for us today. It seems to me that there is absolutely nothing that will get in your way when you put your mind to something. I can only imagine how many people you have inspired while on your triathlon, cancer, and subsequent comeback journey.
Brandi: Yeah, I wouldn’t really say I’ve inspired anybody to my knowledge, I’m just trying to put out as much positive energy for women who have gone through cancer and are trying to get back. I hope that some people can recognize what I’m doing and respond to it, and I think maybe have inspired a few people out there.
Vanessa: I can one hundred percent guarantee that you have inspired people, because just reading your bio I have shivers all up and down my arms, so I know you’ve inspired me. You are an inspiration to me and to your own athletes, you have so much training, racing, and life experience. So what tip would you like to share with our listeners today?
Brandi: A tip that’s really close to my heart right now is to pay attention to your feet. Your feet are the heart and soul of your racing days and your training, so make sure that you’re really putting in a lot of effort into helping them recover. I think a lot of times your feet might be overlooked. Unless they’re sore and screaming at you, you’re probably not paying attention to them. So I tell my athletes and myself, be good to your feet. That doesn’t mean wait for a two‑hour run to decide that you’re going to take care of your feet, or put some time and effort into them. If you’re like me, and you can’t afford those amazing compression boots that some people have out there – I least I haven’t afforded them yet – I do things like make sure you find a good massage therapist. If you’re starting to have some soreness in your feet, have them really pay attention to your feet and work out the knots or the soreness. Or when you get a pedicure, you can get your feet rubbed. And that’s not just for us women, that’s for you men out there too, there is no reason you can’t go and get a pedicure. You don’t have to paint your toes hot pink, but go ahead and treat your feet. Go sit them in a nice warm bath, and let them massage them. The least that you can do is, when you come home after a hard day, put on a pair of compression socks and elevate your feet for 10 or 15 minutes. Put as much time into your feet as you can, because you will need them for a very, very long time ahead of you.
Vanessa: Yeah, that is definitely something that I’ve come to realize as I’ve moved over here to Australia in a warmer climate, I noticed that my feet have deteriorated a little bit because I’m not used to all of this humidity. So taking care of the feet is definitely a wonderful tip. Do you recommend using those little foot balls and roll your foot on it, is that something that you would recommend to athletes?
Brandi: Yeah, absolutely. You can go to any Walmart – I’m not sure if they have them in Australia, but we have Walmart here in the States – and they have different apparatuses that you can buy. So if you’re sitting even at your desk at work, you can put that ball underneath your feet and just rub them back and forth. There’s different shapes and sizes, different pressures that you can put onto them, but anything that you can do to just relieve that tension, and even if you don’t have the tension. With doing yoga, I do so many different feet stretches and strengthening exercises, and you really just have to take five minutes a day, if that’s the least, put some time into your feet. You’ll never regret that.
Vanessa: Right, I absolutely love the multitasking while you’re working. Doing your job, you just stick that ball right under there. The other thing that came to mind as I went to a yoga class the other day, the yoga instructor called one of the poses “The Toe Screamer”. I thought that was the most amazing reference, because it’s the one where you’re up on your toes, and you’re sitting on your heels and your toes are bent, and it makes everyone’s toes scream. I just thought that was the cutest way to refer to that pose.
Brandi: I do that pose, and even when I’m a coach on deck for my athletes who come to the TriDot Pool School, that is one stretch that I have them do every morning and every night. I do it personally. There’s another one where when you come from that position, and instead of having your toes spread out underneath your body, you flip those toes under, and then you straighten your body out almost like in a pushup position with your hands, and you walk your hands back as close as you can. It’s a ballet move from a long, long time ago, and it really stretches the entire foot out. As a swimmer, you really need that, because you need that flexion in your kick.
Vanessa: I cannot wait to go and try that. I’m really excited to give that one a try. I’ve never thought of it in that way, to reverse the pressure on your toes. Yeah, I’m going to go try that pretty much right now.
Brandi: Yeah. If you do the pressure one way, always make sure you come back and do the pressure the other way, so you even it out.
Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.