How do you handle the pressure of an important race? What is an appropriate relationship with pre-race nerves? On today's episode, learn from champions who know how to cope with competing on the biggest stages: Mark Allen and Michellie Jones! Mark and Michellie identify common sources of pressure for a triathlete, suggest strategies for mental preparation, and offer advice for race day pressures. After a great discussion, don't miss Mark and Michellie's three best coaching tips for thriving during a pressure-filled race. Huge thanks to deltaG for partnering with us on this episode. To learn more about the performance boosting benefits of deltaG Ketones head to deltaGketones.com and use code TRIDOT20 for 20% off your order. On their site you can: 1. Learn more about fueling with deltaG ketone products. 2. Make a standalone purchase, or subscribe for ongoing deltaG ketone deliveries. 3. Book a FREE 15 minute video consultation with Brian, an expert on exogenous ketones, and deltaG in particular, to discuss your individual goals and best choice of deltaG drink to exceed those goals. Big thanks to Precision Fuel & Hydration for also partnering with us on this episode! Head over to precisionfuelandhydration.com and check out the Fuel Planner to get your free personalized fuel and hydration strategy. Use the code TRI10 to get 10% off your first order.
TriDot Podcast .159
Performing Under Pressure: Tips from Mark Allen & Michellie Jones
Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.
Andrew Harley: Hey folks! Welcome to the show! A TriDot podcast first today, if you listen closely you may be able to hear the wind and waves of Kailua Bay. We’re on the Big Island of Kona, Hawaii, recording this episode outside on the patio of Kai Eats Restaurant. This is TriDot’s home base here on the island this week, and we are just days away from the 2022 Ironman World Championship. We have two Ironman World Champions with us today, and since we are recording from the shores of the Kona swim course, we’ll be talking about how to handle the pressure of a big race. If you have a race in your future that you know you will care about, buckle up for some top-flight insight from the minds of the two world champions here today. Our first guest joining us is triathlon legend and TriDot coach Mark Allen. Markis the most successful triathlete of all time, having won the Ironman World Championships six times, the Nice International Triathlon ten times, and the first recognized Olympic-distance triathlon championship. He went undefeated in 21 straight races for an astounding two-year winning streak from the late 1988 to 1990. He has been inducted into the Halls of Fame for Ironman, USA Triathlon, and the International Triathlon Union. ESPN named Mark as the Greatest Endurance Athlete of All Time. Mark, welcome back to the show!
Mark Allen: Wow, it’s so cool to be on the shores of the swim course looking out. We can see some of the buoys, we can actually see the final turnaround buoy. When you think of the distance in your mind that’s one thing, but you can’t really understand what that really means until you actually look at it. You can see the course is just amazing. I know a lot of the athletes are nervous about the swim. There’s been a little bit of swell, there’s been a little bit of chop, there’s been a little bit of current. But Michellie and I are going to give a few tips on how to manage some of those nerves.
Andrew: Mark, yesterday, at the time we’re recording this, John Mayfield and myself went for a swim down at the pier. Some other TriDot athletes were down there as well, and we just so happened to walk by the entrance of Dig Me Beach as you were exiting from your morning swim. You had your TriDot swim cap on, you went out for a swim, did you enjoy your time out there on the water?
Mark: I did, and then today I was out there swimming and it was mobbed. It was like the aliens have landed, you know what I mean? I was trying to navigate and make sure I didn’t run into anybody, and I was literally two strokes away from standing up, and this torpedo comes straight at me, and I bolted and stood up. Who was it?
Andrew: Who was it? Tell us!
Mark: Coach Jo.
Andrew: Coach Joanna Nami!
Mark: She saw me coming and she goes, “I’m gonna get this guy today!” And she got me. Busted!
Andrew: Ah yes, I know Coach Jo and several TriDotters did the Underpants Run this morning, and then they went for a swim. Taking part in all the traditions here on the Big Island. Our second guest joining us today is triathlon legend and TriDot coach Michellie Jones. Michellie started her tri career in 1990 and won two ITU Triathlon World Championships in 1992 and 1993. She won the Xterra Triathlon World Championships in 1996 and won an Olympic silver medal in the Sidney Olympic Games. She became an Ironman World Champion in just her fourth full-distance Ironman in 2006. She won a gold medal at the 2016 Summer Paralympics as a guide for Katie Kelly when paratriathlon made its debut at the Paralympics. Michellie, welcome to the show!
Michellie Jones: Thank you so much! I am so happy to be here in Kona. It’s such an amazing island, the Big Island.
Andrew: Beautiful location. Yeah, you can’t beat where we are recording from right now.
Michellie: Yeah, like on the swim course. I did the 2.4‑mile swim when I got here on Sunday, and that’s very, very long.
Andrew: It’s a ways!
Michellie: I hadn’t swum a 2.4 miles since probably like 2019.
Andrew: And you went out there, you got it done. Since then though, you had a little bit of an accident. I’m sure if any of our listeners follow you on social media – guys, Michellie Jones is a fantastic social media follow, make sure you find her on Instagram, she’s always posting great coaching content – but I saw on social media that you went for a run with one of your athletes, you took a spill, and tell us what injury you came down with just the other day.
Michellie: Yeah, somebody said I should come up with a much better story than what actually happened. So it’s like, do you want the truth?
Andrew: We’ll take the truth unfortunately, sorry.
Michellie: Yeah, so I had a great swim in the 2.4‑mile swim. Then I was out running with one of my athletes, and I took one for the team. Twisted my ankle, the tuck and roll, and broke my clavicle. So everyone sees that I’m in a sling and they’re like, “So Michellie, you crashed your bike?”
Andrew: Nope, not that cool.
Michellie: No, I probably would have had a lot more damage if I’d crashed my bike. So yes, it was a run injury. I hit the deck.
Andrew: I'm Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll roll through our warmup question, we’ll settle in for our main set conversation with our coaches, and then wind things down with our cooldown.
A quick shout out to our friends at DeltaG. They are here in Kona this week, and many of the pros that are racing will have DeltaG ketones in their system on race day. Ketones are nature’s super fuel, and the DeltaG ketone ester created by professor Kieran Clarke at Oxford University is the world’s first drink that delivers the exact ketone produced naturally in the body. When I talk to TriDot athletes who are already using DeltaG drinks in their training and racing, they all just rave about the spark of energy and mental clarity that ketones provide. Some athletes are taking DeltaG Performance on the side of their carbohydrate source. Others are mixing in DeltaG Tactical in with their race nutrition. Both ways are highly effective. So however you approach nutrition, there is a DeltaG drink that can mix seamlessly into your flow. The team at DeltaG even offers free 15‑minute one‑on-one consultations, where you can learn the best way to supercharge your nutrition routine with DeltaG ketones. When you place an order, use code TRIDOT20 and get 20% off your super fueled DeltaG ketone drinks.
Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.
Andrew: There are many, many great race-week traditions here in Kona. Swimming to the coffee boat, the underpants run, the midnight finish, and more. Really, across all of sports, there are a ton of equally special traditions. So Mark, Michellie, taking a good long look across the entire world of sports, for our warmup question today, what sporting tradition do you think is the coolest? Mark, I was telling Michellie about our warmup question ahead of time and she asked me, “Can you have Mark go first so I hear what he says before I respond?” So we’ll kick this over to you first, Mark.
Mark: I get to set the bar, and then she gets to raise it. So you’re asking about sporting traditions. Like, the coolest? Just any kind of tradition in sport?
Andrew: Anything that to you is just really notable. You like it, it can be a personal favorite, it can be the coolest, it can be the weirdest.
Mark: Okay, well, I will have to say that the sporting tradition that is unique in and of itself is the Underpants Run here in Kona, it took place this morning. It was born out of quite a few years ago when the Europeans would come here, and they would run along Ali’i Drive. The athletes from the U.S. are modest, they have their running shorts on or whatever, but the German triathletes especially have a different standard. They’re running along in their little tiny swimsuits, so it looks like they’re running in their underpants. So Rock Fry and Paul Huddle, two of the icons who have helped out in the sport for years, decided they were going to start a fundraising event called the Underpants Run, where you have to run in underpants. And they have rules, you can’t go too tiny. I have never done it, never wanted to do it, but it’s part of the Ironman experience that so many athletes want to take part in. They have heard of the Underpants Run. This morning it was like a sea of human being in their skivvies. I have never seen the Underpants Run with so many athletes and participants in it. They’re all having fun. So that’s THE tradition that comes to mind when I think about sporting traditions. I’m sure there’s some really meaningful traditions that I could come up with. Maybe when Michellie’s done I’ll go for round two.
Andrew: Michellie, Mark mentioned that one of his favorite things is the Underpants Run here in Kona. Now he just told us he’s never actually done the Underpants Run. I haven’t done it. I did see it this morning.
Michellie: I know, and me being competitive, Mark, I have one up on you. I HAVE done the Underpants Run.
Andrew: All right! Good, yeah! So Michellie, taking a good long look across the sports world, what sporting tradition do you think is just the absolute coolest?
Michellie: Well of course I’m not going to give you one, I’m going to give you two.
Andrew: Go for it, we’ll allow it.
Michellie: I always loved representing my country, so for me here in Kona, it’s the Parade of Nations. There’s nothing better than representing your country, no matter what level it is. Marching in front of your flag with your fellow countrymen, by far the best experience. I’ve had the opportunity to do it several times at the Olympic level, I’ve done it at an age‑group world championship level. So yeah, just nothing better, that pride you get of representing your country is so, so special. Number two for me, always when I used to race, is that uniform. That matchy-matchy, everything had to match. That whole look. My helmet, my uniform, my cycling shoes, the color of my bike.
Andrew: Good for you. I love it. When you look fast, you feel fast.
Michellie: Yeah. For me there was something special in designing that one race suit for the world championships. I loved putting it on, I always wanted to put a new pair of shoes on. Here’s a little story at the Olympics.
Andrew: Yeah, tell us.
Michellie: I was sponsored by Reebok, so I of course I got custom shoes, I was one of the lucky one. Whatever color, I always used to run in the same model of course, because you do nothing new on race day. So Reebok had made me these beautiful Australian-colored run shoes. I used to convert my shoes, so I actually had little tabs on them. Now they’re triathlon shoes, but back in 2000 and before I always had little tabs.
Andrew: Yeah, you had to make them yourself.
Michellie: Nothing better than putting something new on, put them on race morning, and they don’t fit. Totally freaking out, like they do not fit! They’re the same model, they say they’re that size, they are not that size. So I have a twin. Thankfully to my twin sister, I had another pair of shoes at my house. Lucky the Olympics were in my home country. She literally handed over my shoes right before the race was going to start.
Mark: I should have adopted your good-looking outfit tradition, because other than the first year when I won Ironman in 1989 – Lois Schwartz, who was one of the main photographers for Competitor Magazine back in the day – other than that year, every year she goes, “Oh my god, I should have dressed Mark, because that outfit is terrible.” But in 1989, if you look back at some of the historical photos of Dave and I running together, I had on this yellowish-themed outfit, and he had on these sort of green shorts. And there was this color that popped and matched and really made it very, very cool.
Andrew: Just added to the drama, yeah.
Mark: Yeah, and I hadn’t spilled all my chocolate Ensure all over my jersey. It looked very cool. So if I ever come back, maybe next lifetime, I’m going to adopt that. There is something to that, I agree absolutely.
Andrew: Mark, I didn’t take part in the Underpants Run this morning. I had some stuff to do, I had a podcast to get ready for us here at Kai Eats. But many of our team here on the island went down there. I was parking the car as the Underpants Run was concluding, so all the pedestrians were walking away from the event. I’m just driving down the road being passed by people in their skivvies left and right, and it was like, “Okay, this is a real vibe, this is real different!”
Mark: Well, you could actually do it this afternoon on your own, and just see what the response is.
Andrew: Sure, yeah! Just take the shorts off, take the shirt off. So I think when it comes to just all across sports – and you alluded to the Parade of Nations, there’s many sports with a version of that – I love the Olympic opening ceremonies. My wife and I watch that, whether it’s the Summer Olympics or the Winter Olympics, just to see what kind of theatrics the host nation puts on to welcome the world to the Olympics. To see the athletes walking into the stadium one after another, proudly representing their countries, smiling ear‑to-ear, seeing the flags and the pageantry, I just love it. My wife and I will sit there for four hours and just watch all the countries come in, and it really is something to behold. So that’s my pick here.
Well guys, we’re going to throw this question out to you like we always do. Make sure you are part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group. We’re going to pose this question: across all of sports, whether you’re a soccer fan, a football fan, a rugby fan, whatever you’re a fan of, which sports tradition do you just think is the absolute coolest? Can’t wait to hear what you have to say!
Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…
Andrew: While in Kona we’ve had the chance to catch up with many friends in the triathlon industry. The team from Precision Fuel & Hydration is here doing sweat-testing for athletes, so it’s been cool hanging out with their team on the island. We’ve spoken to their founder, sports scientist Andy Blow, during several episodes of the podcast to help you nail your hydration and fueling strategy for training and racing. The big takeaway from those episodes is that there simply isn’t a one‑size-fits-all approach to race nutrition, and that’s why Andy and the team at Precision Fuel & Hydration have developed the Fuel Planner. You can head over to PrecisionHydration.com to take the Fuel Planner and get your free personalized fuel and hydration strategy. The plan provides guidelines for how much carbohydrate, sodium, and fluid you should be aiming to consume so that you know your numbers for your next race. You can then hit those numbers by using the Precision Fuel & Hydration product range, which is designed to make it easier for you to keep track of your intake during training and racing, as the carb and sodium content per serving is smack dab right on the front of the packaging. As a TriDot listener, you can use the code TRI10 to get 10% of your first order of PF&H electrolyte and fueling products.
Unless you truly have ice flowing through your veins, the bigger the race, the bigger the pressure. A big race can be Kona, or that A race that just simply matters deeply to you. A big race can be shooting for a PR, or just be that upcoming local sprint down the road where you want to finish better than you did last year. If you care about it, and the pressure ratchets up, it is a big race for you. I love that we are hitting this topic with the two of you on the show, because from the World Championships for both of you, racing in Nice for Mark, the Olympics for you Michellie, there were just so many big races where all eyes were on the two of you. And I’ll just say that both of you had a fair amount of success in those races, so you know how to handle the pressure. You know how to be clutch when the intensity ratchets up. So what race from your career would you say you felt the greatest amount of pressure to perform? Mark, we’ll start with you.
Mark: I would probably say the race where I had the most pressure, where I felt like I actually managed it best, was my final Ironman in 1995. A lot of people would say it must have been a lot of pressure in 1989. And it was because this was going to be my seventh time back. I did not know if I had what it took to win, I was just coming back that year to just hopefully finally have my best race, because I had let the pressure get to me in the first six years that I raced here. When I say I let the pressure get to me, I mean that I was coming in with a goal to win, but when I felt the possibility of that win start to slip away in the middle of the race, because I was going through a bad patch or my nutrition wasn’t working or whatever, all of a sudden that pressure just suffocated me. I went from racing, to surviving, to having to come up with a secondary reason to keep going. But in 1989 I really came here just with that feeling like, “You know what? Dave Scott might win again, somebody else might win again,” but my commitment to this island and to myself and to my training partners and those who had supported me was to just come here and have a really strong swim, bike, and run. If I can do that, that will be fulfilling. So I didn’t have that same level of pressure. Fast forward to 1995, I had won five years straight. I took 1994 off from Ironman racing because we had the birth of our son earlier that year, and I was burned out. That’s another thing that athletes have to honor, is that sometimes that need for real deep recovery builds up over time. You might be doing something one year that you did last year, and all of a sudden you’re exhausted and you’re like, “I’m not doing anything different, why am I feeling like this?” It's really that your body is slowly getting depleted on certain levels, maybe your motivation is getting depleted on certain levels, and you just need to back away. It’s not saying, “I’m giving up on the sport, I’m giving up on my big dreams,” it’s just saying, “Let me regroup.” That’s what I did in 1994. So coming back in 1995, I had won five straight. Gregg Welch won the year that I was not competing.
Andrew: Good for Gregg!
Mark: Yeah. He was first, Dave Scott was second at age 40, impressive beyond belief.
Andrew: Absolutely!
Mark: But at that point in history there was this huge pressure like, “Okay, the dude’s coming back, he’s 37. Nobody’s won this race as a 37‑year-old.” Now we’ve seen a lot of athletes extend their careers beyond that early mid‑30’s sweet spot. And nobody had won six in six starts. Dave won six, but he had had one where he didn’t win in there. So there was this huge expectation. And there was only one place where people would cheer for me, and that was coming across the line first. If I came across the line second or lower, people would have gone, “Ah dude, he came back one too many times! He should have just friggin’ retired!” At the same time, I was just in my own zone. I think that’s important for people to have: what’s your purpose for being on that start line, beyond the finish placing or the finish time? What experience are you hoping to gain from this journey that has nothing to do with any comparison to anybody else, or even to a maybe younger version of yourself? Because a lot of athletes, as we know that we coach at TriDot, have been racing for a lot of years. They’re not necessarily racing against their fellow competitors, they want to match a time that they did 15 years before. It’s hard to win against your younger self, right? So I was just in that space of, “I want to come here one more time and give the best that I have to give.” I knew that I had pulled the last little bit of magic out of my bag of tricks that I wanted to try to get faster, so I said, “This is the most fit that I can ever be, the most prepared on every level, physically, mentally, spiritually that I can be.”
Andrew: Did you know it was going to be your last race?
Mark: I knew that it was going to be my last Ironman.
Andrew: Which adds to the pressure, I imagine.
Mark: It adds to the pressure, but at the same time it freed me up. I knew there were no more tomorrows. This was it, this was going to be the final hurrah. Which meant that if things started to go south, it’d be like, “Oh no!”
Andrew: Your last hoorah wasn’t a hoorah, it was a boo-hoorah.
Mark: Because I knew it was my last one, I was able to go so deep within myself and pull out so much more, because I knew I didn’t need to keep anything in reserve for any more racing. This was it. So one thought to keep in mind, when you’re going into that big race, is why does this have meaning to you? What are you trying to gain from it? Be willing to just embrace the journey of that day. Especially if it’s a full Ironman, it’s going to be a journey. It’s not going to be a one-two you’re done kind of thing like a sprint or maybe an Olympic, even a 70.3 Ultimately, for me the most successful races are the ones where every time that little committee goes off in my head that’s whining and saying, “Whaah, my legs are killing me, it’s too hot! That competitor’s too far ahead! I shouldn’t have come back, I’m 37, Thomas Hellriegal’s 13 years younger than me!”
Andrew: “Why did I do this?”
Mark: Yeah, “Hellriegal’s 13½ minutes ahead of me starting this marathon, this is so bad!” Success is when you can take that noise and just tell yourself, “Shut up. Take a breath, pull back for a second. Regroup, and then wrap your mind around something that you can control. Get to the next aid station. Loosen up your stride, lower your shoulders if you’re on the run. Relax your cadence if you’re going into the wind and getting blown all around.” Whatever it is, give the best you have to give each and every moment. Ask yourself, “Am I being the best version of myself right here?” If you’re whining, I guarantee you the answer is going to be a no. But if you can go, “Whew, okay, I got rid of those voices, it’s background static now. Let me just do what I’ve trained myself to do. Let my body take over here,” then you start to absorb it. Then the next thing you know you’re in this rhythm, you feel this flow, and the miles are going faster and faster, even though you may even be going slower. It becomes this experience like all of a sudden you’re locked into the best you have to give. That is so empowering when you can find, even for a few moments in the race, that place where you go, “I am locked in and I am giving the best I have.” That is a successful day.
Andrew: Michellie, Mark was known for Nice, known for Kona, had some other big races in there as well. You did everything from Olympic distance, ITU racing, draft-legal, Ironman World Champion. From that whole gambit, what race did you feel you had the most pressure on you to perform well?
Michellie: You know, I think my journey was slightly different of course than Mark’s. At the beginning of my career, I felt no pressure. There was no expectation. When I won my first world championship, did I think I was going to win my world championship that day? Not really, but I knew I was in great form. Then definitely anytime you have to go back to defend, it’s always added pressure because you know what it feels like to win. You’ve been there, everyone’s expecting the same. Even though triathlon is the most dynamic sport in the world. Like pool swimming, for example. You swim down that black line, the water temperature is always the same, the distance in the pool is usually in meters or yards, if you’re doing short-course. But it’s just so different the more time you spend in the sport, and if you’re winning a lot. I definitely won a lot, so then I’d have athletes say to me, “Oh, it’s so easy for you, Michellie, because you’re just going to win again.”
Andrew: Well, you still gotta go out and do the thing!
Michellie: That’s the whole point, right? You still have to have the best swim, bike, and run. I could tell you several points in my career where the pressure got to me, and I can tell you several points in my career when I’d win a race and the pressure didn’t get to me. Like the pressure of racing the Olympics. As I said, it was at home, with your friends and family. In 1999, Australia had finished at the World Championships in first, second, third, fourth, and fifth. So we were expected to win a gold medal. Then we had a performance review after the Olympics, one of the well-known swim coaches in Australia, Laurie Lawrence, looked at me and said, “Even you, Michellie, are disappointed with your silver medal.” And I was like just flabbergasted. I couldn’t believe that they would say that. Because Olympics happen every four years. It’s one day, a moment of time that you have to prepare for. Sometimes athletes prepare for it all their life, because they know that they’re sport is an Olympic sport.
Andrew: There’s so many athletes on that highest of levels that can take it on any given day.
Michellie: Yeah, and you see a lot of people that do crumble under the pressure. I’ve medaled at a lot of world championships, and that gave me confidence, to know that under pressure I could be very consistent. Even my high school run coach would always tease me, “Michellie, when are you going to blow up in a workout?” I’m like, “Why?” Because for me, that was a mental game in training as well as racing, the fact that I’m consistent in training. I know I’ve done the work, that’s the secret to doing well. Then if I came back and kept winning on a course, that gave me confidence that I could win. So I think some of the lessons I learned was, don’t change anything. It doesn’t matter if it’s a local race or an Olympic race, a way to take the pressure completely off, is keep doing everything you usually do. If your warmup is like that at your local race, keep that at your Ironman World Championships. That the food that you take is what you always take. That’s why we practice it in training, right? Whatever we do in training, we transfer that. I think that takes a lot of the pressure off.
Andrew: Because even though it’s a big race, even though the race might be more important to you –
Michellie: I mean, here’s why you do a warmup, right?
Andrew: Yeah. The steps are familiar.
Michellie: Yeah, exactly, and I think that’s something that I really managed really well over my entire career. Making sure that every time I stepped up to the start line, even at the Olympics – all these other athletes were not wanting to do media interviews, and I’m like, “I’ve been doing them my entire career, I’m not going to change anything.” I think that really helped me get through that Olympic experience. Then think about the Ironman. Here I was, one of the best athletes in the world at short-course, and I was throwing it all away, right? High risk, to go and do Ironman. That was a lot of pressure. But one thing that Paula Newby-Fraser told me that I think helped me so much, is just treat it like a training day. It’s just another swim, it’s just another bike, it’s just another run. They were words of wisdom that I still live by, and still coach by, to treat it just like another training day. So definitely the Olympics, then going to Ironman, super high pressure. The other thing that I’ve really learned over the years, dealing with that pressure, is a few times I definitely succumbed to the pressure because I let people get in my head.
Andrew: And you just didn’t perform as strongly because of it, I imagine?
Michellie: Yeah. One thing I did learn was never give your competition motivation to want to destroy you out on the race course.
Andrew: Mark, you’re laughing at that?
Michellie: But it’s true! Always talk about yourself, never talk about your competition. That helps you. Some people love to smack talk.
Andrew: We’ve seen some of that in the pro field lately.
Michellie: Yeah. But triathlon is the most humbling sport in the world, and if I smack-talked, it would definitely turn around and kick me in the butt. I learned very early, don’t smack-talk. Definitely that helped. I talk to my athletes, like when they’re racing in Kona, this is a world championship. They feel the pressure, they see the pressure. They think everyone else looks fitter than them. But I always tell them, everyone’s looking at you the same way. We’re all fit, we all look fast. I always thought, “That athlete looks way faster than me.” But as Mark said, that commentary that you have in your head – I call it your chimp brain – you can’t turn it off, but it doesn’t mean you have to listen to it. I tell my athletes a lot, “Those things that go on in your head, we’re all thinking the same.” And they’re like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yeah, why did I get up in the morning? Why did I do this race? Why did I want to step up to an Ironman?”
Andrew: “Why am I a triathlete in the first place? I could have so many other hobbies!”
Michellie: Yeah, there’s always that little voice in your head. That’s really where that pressure comes from. Having a good team behind you is really beneficial, because they can help tune it out a little bit as well. A lot of the viewers may not know who Kathy Freeman is, but she was an aboriginal runner who ended up winning the Olympics at the 400 meters. You talk about high pressure, the whole nation expected her to win. Every single Australian on that day expected her to win. And she sort of had the same philosophy, her management had the same philosophy that I developed, of having a good team. From your massage therapist who would give you confidence, “Ah, the muscles feel really good today.” To your coaches, “You’ve done this. Everything that you’ve done in training, we’ve prepared you for that moment.” Your family support, your friend support, all that whole team, if you can surround yourself with a lot of positivity, that is key as well. Having a good team behind you is super, super important.
Mark: That reminded me of something that I just remembered. Prior to getting to the start line in 1989, I certainly felt that huge, immense pressure here in Kona. Part of the pressure was thinking, “Gee, if I don’t perform, it’s going to be death and doom and my life is going to be over.” Like my friends are going to leave me, and my family is going to be gone, and I’m going to be thrown out on the street.
Andrew: “I’m always going to be the guy who was this close.”
Mark: Yeah, you just create all these scenarios in your mind. Literally the day before the race I was walking along, ready to check my bike in, and I saw Corky on the street, a neighbor from San Diego. I didn’t know he was there, and he goes, “Hey Mark! Have a great race out there, and just know that no matter what happens, we love you.” It just really reminded me, “No matter what happens tomorrow, my life is going to go on. Things are going to be okay.”
Andrew: Corky will still be there.
Mark: Corky will still be there, and he will love me, and his wife will love me, and my family and friends will love me. Just embrace that point beyond the end of the race and realize “Yeah, my life will be okay. I will be okay no matter how the race turns out.” Then backtrack to the days before the race. So much of the pressure is in those days leading up to the event. Because you’re creating these scenarios in your mind of what might happen, and you have all these scenarios of things that you’re trying to figure out. “How will I manage if they take place in the race?” All the things that could go wrong, right? You can get overwhelmed with trying to figure out every scenario that might happen to you out there on the course, especially at an Ironman. But I guarantee you, if any of those shows up in the race, it will be so much easier to manage it and deal with it in the race than it was to think about how you might manage it and deal with it before the race.
Andrew: Ah, that’s so true. Absolutely.
Mark: So the athletes that I coach, I just remind them, “Race day will take care of itself.” In these days leading up to the race, first of all, remember it’s okay to have anxiety, to have anticipation, because that is what is going to help you raise your performance.
Andrew: So for your athletes, your goal as a coach, you’re not trying to eliminate the nerves or the pressure –
Michellie: No, not at all! That’s healthy!
Andrew: – you’re just trying to help them navigate that correctly.
Mark: Yeah, and you’re trying to get it in that sweet spot where you know it’s going to help them have the race of their life. I mean you do want to treat it in the race kind of like it is just another training day in the sense of, “I know I’ve got this.” But at the same time, that anticipation is what elevates you to that performance that you would never have in a training day. So I suggest in those days leading up to it, just do the things that you actually have control over in those days.
Michellie: That’s what I was just about to say, control what you can control. That’s one of my favorite sayings. Control what you can control, before the race, during the race.
Andrew: Look at the two of you, in sync.
Mark: We’re like one mind! So pack your nutrition, check your nutrition for the 17th time, whatever it is. Make sure that all the things you need on your bike are set. Make sure your gearing’s working. Make sure you’ve got your goggles. Make sure your bags are packed. If you’re not sure, unpack and repack them, it does not matter. Those are the things you can control. Then in the race, just manage everything that comes up. Again, it will be so much easier to deal with it in the race than it is to think about dealing with it beforehand.
Michellie: I think the other thing that people need to understand is it’s okay to freak out at some point. At some point there is a freak out, and as long as you apologize to the people that you freaked out on, that’s a good thing. I remember, actually I think it was the year that I won, I was walking my bike after getting the final mechanical rundown, and somehow they managed to crack my front wheel.
Andrew: Oh my goodness!
Michellie: I could have totally freaked out, like, “Blahblahblah!” You know what I did? I controlled what I could control. Taking the stickers, my matching pick stickers to match my bike, and thanks to Zipp they supplied me a new wheel, and I spent that time putting those decals back on. So I utilized that freakout possibility time to control the situation.
Mark: My potential total meltdown moment was in my final Ironman. My bike was in the transition area, and my brother did all the mechanical work on my bike.
Michellie: Gary worked on my bike year too for many years.
Mark: Yeah, my brother Gary. He was helping get everything set up, and on the back I had my two water bottle cages. So I pulled my bottles out that I was going to stick in there to have ready to go, I stick them in the water bottle cages, and the whole thing falls off on the ground. This is literally moments before I’m going to go down to the swim start, and Gary had this look of sheer terror in his face. All I said is, “Make sure that is on my bike when I come out of the water.”
Andrew: And you went and you swam!
Mark: Yeah, there was nothing I could do about it. Like Michellie said, focus on what you can control.
Andrew: Either he was going to be able to take care of it, or he wasn’t. Either way, you have the bike.
Michellie: That reminds me of another good story I had. I was doing two races in one weekend. What’s your biggest fear when you travel? Oh my goodness, your bike doesn’t show up! My bike didn’t show up. Even the morning of the race, my bike still isn’t there. But I did what I could control, got another bike organized.
Andrew: You still had the same fitness, you’re still the same athlete. Pink bike decals?
Michellie: I made sure I had a bike in transition, so that when I get out of the swim, it may not have been my bike, but there was a bike in transition. But someone at the airport just happened to be a triathlete. My bike finally arrived, she drove my bike from the airport to the race, and my good friend Mark Lees put it together while I was swimming. So do you know how happy I was when I got out of the water and it was my bike?
Andrew: You weren’t expecting that!
Michellie: No! Oh my god, it made my race. But you know, a worse thing happened. It was a swim-bike-run, swim-bike-run. I broke my toe diving into the water the second swim. So here I was, got my bike, I still won, but I finished the race with a broken toe. I was supposed to race the next day as well, that didn’t happen. But again, it’s amazing having a good team behind you. It makes a big difference.
Mark: Oh my god, that reminds ME of another story.
Andrew: This is the easiest podcast episode for me, I’m just soaking it all in.
Mark: For sure, in a race nothing ever goes perfectly, and that’s just something –
Michellie: Which is funny, right, because I’ve had the worst feelings that I’ve ever felt, like, “Oh my goodness, this is going to be the worst day ever,” and I win!
Mark: You can win on a day that things don’t go perfect.
Michellie: Yeah, that’s important for people to understand.
Mark: But also keep in mind that leading up to the race, things will never go perfectly either. So as best as you can, do not let those things that did not go perfectly affect your race. Don’t have that be the excuse for a bad race. My example of that, I was racing in St. Croix, a half-Ironman distance race. Just like Michellie, my bike did not arrive. They got me a bike that did barely fit me from a local bike shop. I had it together, and literally at midnight, at 12:30 at night, my phone’s ringing in the hotel room, “Your bike just arrived in the airport, and we’ll bring it by.” So it gets to the hotel about 1:30, I put my bike together, now it’s like 2:30 and I’ve got only two hours to sleep. I literally had to just sit myself down and say, “Okay, you’re exhausted. You did not get the sleep that you need, this was the most unrestful night before a race that you’ve ever had. But you cannot use this as an excuse to have a bad race.” Period. You cannot let this be a reason to have a bad race. I ended up winning. It was such a huge lesson for me, with all the experience I’d had to that point, to realize that, leading up to the race a lot’s going to go perfect, some of it’s not. But don’t let those moments be your excuse to have a race that’s less than what you have the potential to have.
Michellie: After listening to you, that’s the other point I was going to bring up, is the fact that sometimes when you aren’t successful, that’s when you learn so much more. All those little things that have happened to you in the past, they’re all great experiences that can help you when you need them. it could be you brought two front wheels to the race instead of a front and a rear
Andrew: Did you do that, Michellie?
Michellie: I may have. I may have worn my helmet backwards.
Andrew: I bed it made for a great photo op.
Michellie: Twice, in the same race, a year apart. But the whole point is, it’s okay sometimes to fail. Sometimes it’s okay to have that breakdown before a race. But it’s how you respond that will really shape what happens on race day. That’s so important in an Ironman, because the whole day is a roller coaster. You feel good, you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad. Control what you can control, I love that message. The other thing is, it’s never over. It doesn’t matter how much you think that you’re failing out there. Know why you’re out there. That’s a big message that has always helped me, particularly in an Ironman. Know why you’re out there, and have a really good reason. Don’t do it for somebody else. You’re doing it for yourself. Because ultimately, it’s not your coach that’s going to get you across the finish line. Yes, they will prepare you to the best they can. But ultimately it’s how you handle the physical conditions, it’s how you handle the climatic conditions, and it’s how you handle that chimp brain.
Mark: And all of you out there who race, you have your support crew. You have your family, your friends who have helped you get to that start line, who have helped you prepare. I’m sure, if you’re training for an Ironman, that they have sacrificed a lot to support you in this journey. They have done their job, they have helped you. Then on race day, this is your time. So in those moments where you might feel like giving up, or the chimp brain goes off, remind yourself, “This is my time. This is the day where I get to show them what I can do through their support.” That is such a foundation of strength, and it helped me so many times in those down moments where I wanted to give up. I’m like, “If I give up, that will not honor those people that have helped me out. I could not be here without their support, without their help.” My family, my friends, my training partners, my advisors, my mentors. This is my time. They ultimately don’t care if I get first, second, or last. They just want to know that I gave everything that I had on race day, and they will see it. They will know. If I struggle and I have a bad race but I made it through and didn’t give up, they will see that, and they will know that their help was honored, and it’ll complete that circle. So remember those people who are helping you out, and who helped you out to get there.
Andrew: I think a lot of times we put the pressure on ourselves, because we have all that support crew. We have our friends and family, we have our peers in the sport, and they believe in you. They love and support you no matter how the race goes. My wife is an accountant for Price Waterhouse Coopers. She works in the PWC Dallas office, and the PWC Dallas tax department think that I am just the fittest person they’ve ever encountered. I know that I go to Ironman Waco and finish 300th out of a field of 700 athletes at Ironman Waco, I am not the fittest person. I was on the flight here to Kona, and the lady sitting next to me on the plane was like, “Oh, what race did you qualify at?” I was like, “I am very flattered that you look at me and say, ‘That’s a guy who looks like he qualified to be here.’” I’m going for work, I’m not racing, I’m a 12‑hour Ironman athlete, I’m not a 10‑hour qualifying athlete. But I say that to point out, the people in our lives – our friends, our family, our peers, the people that we encounter – just the fact that you are an average triathlete, you are something in their eyes. People admire you already for that. Win, lose, PR, non‑PR – go out there, do the best you can with the fitness you have on the day, do what you can to roll through the moments as the punches come your way, and just enjoy the day from there. Whatever the result is, it's going to be what it’s going to be. But you have to go out there and just do the best you can for yourself, right?
Michellie: Exactly. One thing that I always did leading into the race was I would take a moment right before the start, where I would just close my eyes and just visualize what I wanted to do on that day. It’s amazing that sense of calm that would come over you. I’d visualize where I would be in the swim, how I would feel on the bike, how I would feel when I got off the bike. And at the end of that visualization, I always remembered how fantastic it would be to finish. The spectators, the volunteers, they’re the ones that make the race as well. It’s like you are by yourself, but you’re not, because you have those volunteers, you have the spectators. As Bob Babbitt would always say, “Hey, training’s the hard part!”
Andrew: That’s so true.
Michellie: When you get to the start line, it’s all catered. So I think that just spending a few moments to visualize how you feel that race is going to pan out. Like, I finished second here at my second-ever Ironman, my first attempt in Kona in 2005. I actually dreamt that I got second!
Andrew: Really!?
Michellie: And I’m like, “Why didn’t I dream I won?” But you know, it’s amazing how that subconscious can turn into reality. One of my biggest things that I tell people, “Dream it, believe it, live it!”
Andrew: I know both of you really enjoy working with age‑group athletes. You have age‑group athletes that you coach that are elites, that are here racing Kona this week, and you have age‑group athletes that are very average, like me. You have age‑group athletes that are fairly new to this sport, and are still figuring it out, and just having a good time learning from you. When you’re in those conversations with them, and you know they have a big race on the calendar, you know that race means a lot to them, what are those conversations like? What do you find yourself saying to them to help them deal with the pressure? I think it’s one thing on race morning, you wake up and you go through the motions, you know how to go through the motions. But that week leading up, those two weeks leading up, then you really have time to get that chimp brain going, to get that voice in your head talking to you. Mark, what do you find yourself saying to those athletes as they’re getting a week or so closer to race day, and they’re freaking out a little bit from the pressure?
Mark: You know, there’s no one‑size-fits-all answer to that, because the pressure that somebody feels, or the anxiety that somebody feels, can come from many different sources. One person, it might be they’re freaked out about the swim. Another person might be freaked out about the heat. Someone else, it could be just they don’t know if they’re ready, if they can manage the distance. Everybody has their own specific things that cause them that anxiety that can take the excitement over the edge from being positive to a negative. So I have to really personalize the message for each person.
Andrew: Yeah, that makes sense.
Mark: But basically, I just remind them: one, they’ve done the training, they’re ready. The second thing I remind them is, it’s okay to have nerves, to have anxiety. As we’ve spoken about, just do the things that you have control over in these days leading up to the race. As Michellie said, just take time to reflect on how you want the day to go. I also remind people that I had my sayings or mantras that I was going to pull up when things got tough. Let’s say on the marathon, I had practiced and visualized, “You’re running light as a feather!" or whatever it is. But I tell the athletes, “You know what, those didn’t work for me.” And I’ll tell you why. First of all, usually I couldn’t even remember what they were.
Andrew: Once you were there in the moment.
Mark: Yeah, when I’m in the moment.
Michellie: It’s like tunnel vision.
Mark: Then secondly, “Oh yeah! That one about the marathon, ‘I feel light as a feather?’ No! I feel like I weigh about a thousand pounds, and I can barely move!’” So in the moment, when it was challenging, I didn’t even believe those things. And when my family and friends are like, “You look great!” I’m like, “No I don’t!”
Andrew: I know what I look like! I know what I feel like!
Mark: Yeah! So I just remind them, when you have those moments, just take a deep breath. Get relaxed. Bring your shoulders down. Get your breathing to go deeper. Slow your breathing rate. Slow your effort, drop your effort level back a little bit. Regroup. Quiet your mind. Regrouping is not giving up.
Andrew: You can always regroup.
Mark: It’s important to regroup, and to just expect that yes, you will have those moments. Then you quiet your mind, and all of a sudden things start to loosen up and you start flowing again. And you’re kind of, “Okay, now I’m in the flow, this is cool again.” But I also remind them, once you hit nirvana, you’re not going to be there forever. You’re going to have another one of those moments. And another, and another, and another. So just keep bringing yourself back to that place of quiet, self-confidence, of getting it out of your way so you can do what you’ve trained your body to do. It knows how to do it.
Andrew: Michellie, what do you find yourself saying to your coached athletes when they’re coming up to a pressure race?
Michellie: So, think about this case scenario that one of my athletes has. He’s sight-impaired. Think about someone like him who’s come to Hawaii for the first time. He raced as basically, I would call it “able bodied,” and now he is sight-impaired. Think about how dramatic the difference is of those two experiences, and think about the sensory overload that he is having right now in this moment. It’s very similar to an able-bodied athlete, but so much more that he has to take into account, right? So for someone like him, I’m going to tell him the same thing as I tell everyone else. Even though his anxiety level is very different because of that impairment, I’m going to tell him the same thing, and very similar to what Mark says. It always comes back to control what you can control. It’s okay to be emotional, but make sure you center it. Make sure you come back and, as Mark said, take a moment to regroup. Understand that this is part of the journey. Particularly here at Ironman World Championship. It’s very special, and yes there is that added pressure, but don’t forget that you need to take the time to go through those emotions. Don’t’ ignore them. Go through them, understand them, and then use them to your benefit. So I’ll be telling him, when I meet with him later, “All those emotions you’ve had all race week, there’s a reason why you had them. When you’re out there on the course, try to refocus that energy that you had.” Like he was saying how proud his dad was going to feel, who’s no longer with us. So using that emotion in a good way, don’t let that emotion drain you. I think that’s a big mistake that people who came in thinking with a purpose other than just swim, bike, and running out there. Don’t let that emotion drain you, use it to your benefit. So if you are having a bad moment, smile! Just a simple smile can make a big difference. And I always tell people take a big deep belly breath, all the way down past your belly button. Take that belly button breath and go, “You know what, my dad’s going to be so proud of me right now. I’m going to keep pushing forward, even though at this moment I feel like I cannot take another step. I’m going to utilize that.” And Mark’s right about the mantras. I would do the other way, I would try to psych out my competitors, that I’d come up with this song that was really annoying, and start singing it.
Andrew: Out loud on the course.
Michellie: No, like before the race, so it would be in their head. But mantras never really work for me. It was always like, “Okay, think about your nutrition. Think about how am I feeling.”
Andrew: Real practical stuff.
Michellie: Yeah. Like my pedal technique, my run technique, the belly breathing, those little things. That’s what I’ll discuss with each one of my athletes. On the swim, think a little bit about technique rather than going, “Oh my goodness, my heart rate is so high, I’m so nervous.” Think about that on the bike, the same thing, “How’s my pacing, how’s my nutrition, how’s my energy level? How’s my mental focus, do I need some caffeine?” And on the run, it’s the same again, like, “Okay, how am I feeling? How’s my form?” Rather than focusing on those mantras, it’s controlling what you can control.
Andrew: That’s always helped me, to make it tangible. We talked at the beginning of the main set here about that race in your career where you felt the most pressure. For me, the race in my career where I felt the most pressure was my first 70.3 I was intimidated by the distance. My wife and I had flown halfway around the world to 70.3 New Zealand. So you do all this travel, you go through all this training, you do your first big training cycle for a long race, and I just remember thinking, “What if I wake up and there’s a massive thunderstorm and we don’t get to race, and we put all this work in?” I just felt pressure of having gone through all the effort to have that race, and just wanting it to go well. I always tell people, no matter how much pressure I feel heading into a race – I always have those nerves, I have that anxiety – I feel that pressure for maybe the first 100 yards or meters. And after that –
Michellie: For me, the sooner the gun goes off, I’m happy.
Andrew: Once I’m in the water and I’ve swam that first 50 yards or meters, it’s a reminder that, “Oh, I’m in the water swimming. I know how to swim. I’ve done this a hundred times.” Sure it’s a big race day, it’s a pressure race day, but once you get in that familiar situation, you’re doing something you know how to do, that you’ve trained how to do. I love early in the main set when both of you shared – as great as each of your careers are and as many things as you accomplished – you still showed up to the start line with pressure, with doubts, with things that went wrong logistically, leading up to that race. Not knowing what bike was going to be waiting for you in transition when you got there, not knowing what state your bike was going to be in. As an age‑grouper, it’s interesting to know that no matter what level you ascend to in this sport, race day is going to be race day. Things are going to wrong, and you just have to roll with it, and have the best day that you can with what the day gives you.
Michellie: Roll with the punches.
Andrew: It’s so funny, I’m scanning through the questions I scripted for this episode, and you guys just naturally riffing, I think this probably the most organic conversation we’ve had on the TriDot podcast.
Michellie: See, that’s why we didn’t want to see the questions.
Andrew: Yeah, Mark Allen always refuses to see the questions.
Mark: I don’t want to see them, yeah.
Andrew: And Michellie, you were that way.
Michellie: I just need to know what the topic is and I’m good. I mean, that’s where that experience comes in, right?
Mark: One last reminder for all the athletes listening, is that things don’t have to go perfectly to have an amazing day. A story from my career: as you mentioned in my bio, I won the Nice International Triathlon ten times out of ten starts. Which to me is more amazing than winning Kona six times, because I didn’t win here six times. But in Nice, every time I started, ten different years, I won it. But one year I woke up and I was achy and I had a little bit of a fever, and I thought, “I can’t race, I’m sick!” Then I go, “Well, you know, I flew all the way here –”
Andrew: “I put in all that effort!”
Mark: “I put in all that effort, I’m thinking about Andrew and New Zealand –“
Andrew: Naturally, yeah. I’m an inspiration to you!
Mark: Yeah, you are, absolutely. And I thought, “Just do the swim, then you can drop out.” So I went through the swim and I came out of the water, and I was still feeling achy but I thought, “You know, maybe I should just get on the bike, and I can just pull out at any point.” So I got on the bike and I was going through the bike ride, and next thing I know I’m at the end of the bike and I’m thinking, “I certainly don’t feel perfect, but maybe I’ll just start the run.” Then by the time I got to the turnaround on the run, I had moved into second place. Scott Tinley was just a couple minutes ahead of me on the road, and I’m like, “Oh my god, I started this day feeling so sick that I wasn’t even going to race, and now I’m in second place, in position to possibly win.” And I ended up passing him and going on for a win that day. So for me, that was such an amazing, potent lesson. As Michellie said, some of the biggest lessons come out of the toughest moments. A day where I was literally sick at the start of the day, I ended up winning one of the biggest races of my entire career.
Andrew: We’ve had so many TriDot athletes that I’ve seen post to our Facebook group saying, “I had a race this weekend. I didn’t think I could do it. The training wasn’t perfect leading into it, I didn’t feel great, maybe I got sick a week or two before the race. Maybe they didn’t end up with the race they wanted initially, but they always respond, “I got through it, I reached that finish line, it was a great moment, and I’m glad I went out there and did it.”
Michellie: I think my takeaway from Mark is “break the race down”.
Andrew: Yeah, one leg at a time.
Michellie: Get through the swim. Get to the first turn buoy, get to the second, get to the turnaround. That’s how you should be racing anyway, because that’s part of the motivation, right? I just need to get to the next aid station. I just need to get to the turnaround. And in the end, I just need to get to the finish. I think that’s important. Have the best swim you can on the day you’re given, have the best bike you can have on the day you're given, and have the best run you can run on the day you’re given.
Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.
Andrew: At the time we are recording this episode, we are days away from the 2022 Ironman World Championships in Kona, Hawaii. So I am turning the cooldown here into Mark and Michellie’s Race Day Predictions. Now, this episode will actually publish the Monday AFTER the latest champions are crowned, but what I’m going to do is I will share with our I AM TriDot Facebook group ahead of time what you both have to say here. Then our listeners who maybe didn’t see that post in advance can hear what you had to say here on the episode, go back, look at the final results, and see how tuned in to the pro field Mark and Michellie are, how did your predictions come to be. It’s always fun, taking the guess and seeing. There’s so many excellent athletes in the field, it can go a lot of different ways, but I’m curious how you both see this race playing out here, as we’re days away heading into it. Michellie, I’m going to start with you. What three women and what three men?
Michellie: Well, let’s start with the men.
Andrew: Okay, what three do you expect to see on the podium?
Michellie: I mean, you definitely can’t go past someone like Kristian Blummenfelt. You just can’t. But what I love about this season is that we’ve seen a lot of young guns. Magnus Ditlev, I’m super excited
Andrew: We watched him run shoulder-to-shoulder with Ben Hoffman at Ironman Texas this year. It was riveting!
Michellie: Yes, I was announcing that! Yes! You know, he’s just improved since that race. He’s improved even more. I think that third place on the podium is going to be a real fight. I mean, Lionel Sanders is as tough as nails, but don’t be surprised by a couple of those that might pop in.
Andrew: There are some in this field!
Michellie: I just feel that, just based on the season, the results. Yes, Kristian has never raced here before, but he has tenacity, he definitely has the talent, and we did see some cracks in the armor earlier in the season, so I’m just excited to see. Whoever wins, it’s going to be a fantastic race no matter what.
Andrew: It absolutely is.
Michellie: That’s my men’s predictions, what about yours, Mark?
Mark: Well, on paper, Kristian looks like the hands-on favorite, just because his iconic racing that he’s had this year, especially his Ironman in St. George was just phenomenal.
Andrew: Spectacular. He left no doubt.
Mark: Yeah, incredibly difficult course, and he just crushed it. However, there has been a little chink in the armor. He had some cramps in Edmonton PTO, Canadian Open. I’m actually going to give a slight edge to Gustav Iden. He’s very methodical, he’s patient, he did not get to race in St. George because he got Covid.
Andrew: You’re right, that’s true. I forgot about that.
Michellie: That’s a good point. He might be a little fresher.
Mark: I think he’s going to be a little bit fresher. I have heard through Lionel’s training partner, Collin Chartier, who won Dallas –
Michellie: Yeah, he’s one of my surprise people.
Mark: He is a dark horse for sure. I met him at the Collins Cup last year, and I’m like, this guy is the future of the sport, at least here in the United States. But he trains with Lionel, and he said Lionel’s race at PTO Dallas where he got 21st, he said, “Don’t’ even look at that. The training the guy did that week leading up to it, he wasn’t fresh at all. He’s ready to pop off really good.” So Lionel easily could be top three if he wanted, it would be an amazing moment for the sport just because he has such a huge following. He’s probably the most honest athlete out there. Like, if he has a shitty day training, he says, “I had a shitty day training.” He doesn’t go, “Oh, I just got back from the most amazing, wonderful, 17-hundred-thousand-mile ride and I’m feeling so strong.”
Andrew: “Here’s my Instagram photo, glistening in sweat and positivity!”
Mark: Zoom in, zoom out! Magnus Ditlev, his race in Challenge Roth was phenomenal. I actually interviewed him after that for my “Monday’s With Mark Allen”, “Road to Kona” stuff, and he was such a humble guy. Such a guy that’s hungry in a very slow, patient way.
Michellie: But, like, wise beyond his years.
Mark: Yes, absolutely. And very focused in the right way.
Michellie: And very data driven, another athlete who’s really data driven.
Andrew: Well, we love that, obviously.
Mark: Then actually, a little bit off my radar but on a lot of people’s radar is Braden Currie. He was on the upswing when 2019 came, I think he was fourth here.
Andrew: I remember him and Tim O’Donnell running side-by-side through the Energy Lab for a while, yeah.
Mark: He was on the upswing, and then all of a sudden he’s stuck in New Zealand for a couple years and nobody sees him. If his training continued on, he could be the guy that just pops off one and everybody goes, “Braden Currie?! Oh wow!”
Andrew: Yeah.
Mark: The women…
Michellie: I mean, you can’t go past Daniela. I think Daniela has proven that she’s in good form this season. Definitely she’s got a point to prove because a lot of people wrote her off. That was one of the things we talked about, never give your competition more motivation to go out and crush you, either way. So I definitely think she’s got a point to prove. I think Laura Phillip, at this distance, is definitely going to be on that podium if she can put together a great race. I definitely think [Lucy] Charles-Barclay might surprise a few people. I mean, she now has a couple races under her belt, it’ll be just a matter of is she fresher than everyone else?
Andrew: Maybe, maybe so!
Michellie: The thing about Lucy is she’s going to lead. She’s going to be first out of the water, so they have to chase her down. That’s always a good position to be in for somebody who likes to race at the front of the race, and she definitely likes to be at the front. She did run well at the long-distance ITU World Championships not too long ago. She’s still very young, and she’s got a lot of motivation, being injured and seeing everything that’s been going on with Kat Matthews being out of the race now. Unfortunately, Kat was definitely a big huge contender. I talked to her yesterday, she has such a great attitude still. So definitely they would be my three. I think Fenella [Langridge], watch out for her as well.
Andrew: Mark?
Mark: This is going to be like opening one of those time capsules, because everything will have happened and people are going to be looking back at this going, “Oh you guys were so smart!” Or they’ll be going, “You guys did not nail it at all!”
Andrew: But that’s the fun here, Mark!
Michellie: This is the thing to remind everyone. At a World Championship, there’s always statistics. There’s always somebody who wakes up sick. There’s always someone who’s not telling you they’re injured. There’s always someone who just totally crumbles under the pressure. So as Mark said, we can sit up here and go, “Blah, blah, blah,” and we may be totally wrong. It’s an Ironman and we’re in Kona.
Andrew: That’s why they do the race, right?
Mark: Absolutely!
Michellie: Yeah, and that’s the exciting part.
Mark: If it was just about the numbers, we’d mail it in and get the checks, right?
Andrew: Just give it to Daniela.
Michellie: That’s what I love. Then there’ll be somebody who will have the greatest performance of their entire life.
Mark: So anyway, I definitely am one thousand percent in agreement with Michellie about Daniela. She’s been on a major trajectory, motivation upswing. When she crossed the line in St. George and just shoved those five fingers in front of the camera –
Andrew: That’s a pretty baller move.
Mark: And to be honest, she goes, “Oh my, I guess I was pretty emotional!” It even shocked her when she looked back at it. For sure, Daniela, I got to say, hands-on is the favorite for top of the podium. Laura Phillip I think is an absolute favorite for being right there as a podium finisher, if not the champion if something happens with Daniela. Lucy is a 50/50.
Andrew: Yeah, where is she at in her fitness?
Mark: Obviously, at 70.3 Worlds last year she showed the entire universe that she can actually swim, bike, and run better than anybody else out there. However, with her injury and that amount of time that she missed, it’s valuable training time that she was out. And not only was she not training, but she was having to put all the energy into rehab, which is draining. It’s tiring. Then when she was able to come back and train, my guess is that she was probably trying to make up for some lost time.
Michellie: But the thing that I like about her, she has such big lung capacity from swimming. So a lot of her fitness will come from her swimming.
Mark: That’s true.
Michellie: Just throwing it out there.
Mark: Anyway, the last name I really should throw in the hat, at least for no other reason than out of respect, is Anne Haug.
Andrew: Oh yeah, what a runner.
Mark: She had an amazing race here in 2019, she is the defending Ironman Hawaii World Champion. Time has passed, and others have raced their game. She is nervous, admittedly, about the formation of packs. If it’s a long line and she’s at the back, it’s impossible to get to the front. You can’t pass 29 girls, the effort would be heroic.
Andrew: Yeah, and you pay for that later.
Mark: Yeah, so she’s just hoping that dynamic is that there’s a lot of littler packs, so that she won’t be with Lucy out of the water, obviously. Hopefully she can move up and be in good position off the bike and use her weapon, the run, to close the deal. But she’s an outside chance.
Michellie: It’s always interesting, when you do look at the dynamics of the women’s race to the men’s race. Because in the past, we’ve seen all the uber bikers make some big moves, have a significant impact. With the women’s race, the power-to-weight ratio sometimes is very different to the men’s race. You definitely get some really strong bike riders, but tactically, on the bike, it’s not as spread apart. When I was racing, I was very consistent in the swim, bike, and run, and it’s becoming even more. You can’t swim over an hour unless you’re super-duper talented in the other two disciplines. You can’t get away anymore just being super-duper at one discipline.
Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks! I want to thank Ironman World Champions and TriDot coaches Mark Allen and Michellie Jones for helping us thrive in a big-pressure race. Shout out to Precision Fuel & Hydration and DeltaG for partnering with us on today’s episode. Head to PrecisionHydration.com to get a personalized race fueling strategy. Use code TRI10 to get 10% off your first order. At deltaGketones.com you can book a free 15‑minute session to learn how to use ketones in your fueling plan. Use code TRIDOT20 to get 20% off your ketone drinks. Thanks so much for listening, we’ll do it all again soon. Until then, happy training!
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